Author: Jessica Duenas

Link to Spotify

In this episode:
CW: pregnancy loss and death by overdose

This episode touches on the unlearning that happens when “doing the next right thing” is overshadowed by life’s most painful moments. I discuss how recovery has taught me to handle the hard things, including navigating a miscarriage—a topic often kept silent yet desperately needing a voice.

Resources:

Bottomless to Sober – Coaching, Writing Classes, and Workshops

Transcript:
Today’s episode is going to have a content warning specifically for conversations around pregnancy, loss and death by overdose, so if those are things that you do not want to hear about, then don’t listen to today’s episode. Otherwise, thank you for joining. So it’s my birthday, the time of this recording. It is Sunday, february 4th, and today is my 39th birthday, and normally I would be feeling more excited, but it has been a hell of a week and I’m honestly just living in a lot of pain right now, and two things can be true at once, right. So I am living with a lot of emotional pain right now, while I’m also experiencing a lot of gratitude for several things. I’m absolutely experiencing a ton of gratitude for how I have handled myself this week with the loss that I’ve been dealt, and I’m also really grateful for the people in my life who have shown up for me. I don’t think that I realized how loved I was until things started to go wrong this week and the amount of support that I have had on all sides, like from people at my day job to my colleagues at the luckiest club, to the people in my personal life, right Like I have really been so loved and supported and for that I am so grateful. But, anyway, what I wanted to do for today’s episode, I actually wanted to read the reflective piece that I wrote. I always like delivering content in different forms and I think, like some people are readers and then some people are listeners, and so for the folks who I connect with here on this world, who like to listen to the things that I share, this is really for you and I’ll probably, you know, add love a couple of things. But I did want to share this reflection because it means a lot to me in my journey that I was able to put this together. So I titled this piece when doing the next right thing wasn’t enough, and I hope that if you know anyone who has dealt with pregnancy loss themselves and especially is navigating the walk of recovery, I hope you’ll share it with them. I think a lot of people really don’t talk about miscarriage like at all, and it really does a disservice to folks when they go through it and they think that they’re the only ones right, and so I’m speaking up because I hope that this helps someone else feel a little bit less alone, and I also speak up because it helps me feel better to share. So, with that being said, here is this piece that I wrote this week when doing the next right thing wasn’t enough.

03:04
In the social media realm, sobriety related posts present enticing promises to people who might want to quit drinking from promises of glowing skin and better sleep to weight loss in the prospect of a life so fulfilling that the idea of escaping to drink seems unimaginable. Appealing as they are, such promises are only true sometimes, especially the ones about loving your life so much that you won’t want to escape it. In my early recovery, I subscribed to the belief that doing the next right thing would shield me from the unknown future, that getting my addiction under control would end my suffering. The bulk of my suffering was caused by drinking when, out of desperation for companionship, I found myself repeatedly entangled in relationships with men who feared commitment. When one of them did offer me commitment, it turned out that he struggled with opiate addiction and, ignoring it, I trusted that love alone would conquer it and, as no one likes to admit, love was not enough, while on the pain of the pandemic and the world being shut down, and he was driven back to the needle. I saw him for the last time, bluish, before the coroner wheeled him away, just before his relapse and death. We had talked about what it would look like to build a family. His rough, calloused hands carefully held my face as he gently whispered you are my family, and I shared with him that I wanted to have a baby. Not a week later, in what felt like an instant, he was gone. Instead of seeking help, I dove into every possible bottle to avoid the pain of losing him. My dreams of a family were shattered. I felt I would never find a partner, fall in love or become a mother. That year, isolation and grief landed me in eight alcohol-related hospitalizations that lasted from three days to five weeks.

05:07
When I finally got sober in November of 2020, I needed to believe that I had paid my dues of emotional suffering due to a life of alcohol addiction. I had to hold on to the hope that if I could stop pouring this poison into my body, that everything would go just right. Surely, sobriety would bring me peace in life. I would want to embrace, rather than escape, a belief I carried until recently. In December of 2023, I was in a new, healthy, long-term relationship and finally felt safe enough to consider actually trying to get pregnant.

05:46
On a chilly afternoon, I went to the grocery store and filled my cart with snacks, suddenly, strolling into the family planning section Like a teenage girl with a secret, I glanced around to make sure no one was watching and I snuck a box of pregnancy tests into my shopping cart. My stomach fluttered with excitement as the cashier rang up my total. Rushing home to use the bathroom, I ripped into the box and tore open the test packaging. A faint pink line came up, eyes wide, my chest tightened with anticipation as I pulled out another test and waited. I was pregnant. Grabbing the third test, I waited again, I was still pregnant. After years of not trusting myself or my partners, I rejoiced Finally, I get to be a mom.

06:39
On Christmas, I told my partner the news, the joy of which was the best gift I could give. Weeks later, we confirmed the pregnancy with an ultrasound and upon hearing the heartbeat, we beamed at each other and right with excitement. We shared the news with our loved ones and colleagues and I started to write notes to the baby in a collection of random thoughts titled All the Things I Wish I had Known. The joyous anticipation abruptly extinguished during a routine checkup on January 30th. The ultrasound delivered the heartbreaking news of a silent miscarriage. I’m so sorry, jessica. The sonographer said quietly the baby is gone. Looking at the screen, trying to make sense of her words, I listened for a heartbeat that was not there. On the screen was a misshapen sack. My heart sank, my eyes watered. My partner squeezed my hands tightly as the room spun out of control.

07:44
Despite my beliefs about recovery, life had shattered the illusion of sobriety as a shield against pain and loss. About one out of four pregnancies. Don’t make it, it’s not your fault. My doctor explained there’s no reason. As I wept silently in my partner’s arms tears in his eyes too my heart felt that familiar feeling of shattering and my thoughts raced. Will I ever become a mother? Do I have the courage to try to get pregnant again? What if I never become a mother? I’ve been through enough already. Why do I have to go through this? Haven’t I done all the right things?

08:30
That final thought right, that final reflection is precisely where I got things wrong about recovery and I had some serious unlearning to do you see, recovery? It’s not a guaranteed dispensary of desires earned through time and effort sobriety, it turns out. It doesn’t equal immunity from hardship, but rather it equips us with the tools to face life’s challenges. And in the face of this loss, I went ahead and I revisited a note that I had written to the baby. And the note said this difficult times come to reveal something about you to yourself, something that you would have never known otherwise. How could you know how strong you are if you never had something to overcome? Don’t seek hardships, but when they come, say hello. What are you here to teach me? Right, like here’s the thing Recovery. It doesn’t exempt us from life’s tribulations, but it does transform our ability to navigate them.

09:46
When I read that note and I contemplated this loss, I realized that I had to process the lesson that recovery owes me nothing. Right, it has armed me with the means to handle life’s challenges without needing to escape when my partner passed away in 2020, isolation and alcohol those were my coping mechanisms when I miscarried this week. I immediately leaned on others for support. I accepted offers of food and companionship, I took time off work, I cleared my calendar, except for one thing that I couldn’t figure out how to clear and I sought refuge with my sister after having surgery to complete the miscarriage. Like you know, on Tuesday I found out I was miscarrying and then I had to turn around and have surgery on Thursday. It was fast, right, but, simply put, I have allowed others to take care of me and I have changed the narrative of how I respond to hardship because of my recovery. And again, it’s my birthday weekend. Today is my actual birthday and I basically canceled the entire celebration, right, because of my broken heart. Like, I feel like shit. I don’t feel like being a social butterfly, and that’s okay, but you know what? I’m still choosing to stay sober and I’m choosing to sit with this inevitable pain that is coming with everything that’s happened this week.

11:11
During the support group meetings that I lead with the luckiest club, one of the things that we do is we always close out those meetings with a reading of the nine things. And so the nine things. If you’ve ever read Laura McCow and spoke, push off from here. She basically says that the nine things are exactly like what she has always needed to hear during her hardest times, right and so, and that these are things that she needs to hear. Excuse me for my cough, but these are the things that she needs to hear in her daily experience. Right, and I realize when I listen to the nine things it’s almost like they’re applicable beyond sobriety, because I feel like I need to hear these damn nine things to help me recover and start this process of healing from the miscarriage as well. And so I’ll go ahead and I’ll read the nine things they say.

11:58
One it is not your fault. Two it is your responsibility. Three it is unfair that this is your thing. Four this is your thing. Five this will never stop being your thing until you face it. Six you can’t do it alone. Seven only you can do it. Eight you are loved. And nine, we will never stop reminding you of these things.

12:30
And so, going back to that note right, that I had written to my unborn baby don’t seek the hardships, but when they come, say hello.

12:40
You know what are you here to teach me? Yeah, like hello, you fucking hard times. I’m not grateful for them, but I am thankful for how I have learned to handle them, and that is a true testament to my sobriety, right when I, when I met with my therapist yesterday, she brought up the point that in recovery journeys whether we’re recovering from different substances or behaviors, whatever we’re recovering from in this life because we’re all recovering from something that we go through phases of having to hold onto certain beliefs to get us through certain windows and then letting go of those beliefs. And so in the beginning of anyone’s sobriety journey, right, we have to latch onto that belief that sobriety is going to be this ticket to a happy, healthy, beautiful life. We’ve got to hold on to that because if there’s no hope in sobriety, then why the hell would we stop drinking?

13:42
But eventually, right, and I almost feel like this is my official transition from the early recovery into I don’t know, I don’t know what you call go beyond early recovery, regular recovery, long term recovery. But I think that this to me feels like it’s the big transition where I have finally let go of the pink cloud, right, like that’s definitely gone, and I absolutely recognize that I’m not immune from the pain of this human existence, but I get to handle it totally differently from how I would have handled it in my drinking days. And I think that that is the transition from early recovery into, like, the rest of recovery. And, who knows, like I might have other revelations in time but I really do kind of feel like that’s my big, big takeaway that in the beginning I needed to believe that everything was sunshine and rainbows. I needed to believe that you could have fun sober, and I needed to believe that sobriety was all this rah, rah, rah. And now I understand that sobriety isn’t all those things, and that’s okay. I don’t need to believe that anymore.

14:53
In order to stay sober, now I just know that sobriety equips me with the tools to handle whatever comes my way, and for that I’m grateful. And, like I said at the start of this, I’m also just really grateful for all the love that I have received. I don’t know if I’ll get to become a mom, right, like one in four pregnancies don’t make it, and that’s crazy that that’s not talked about enough, right, I’m getting older. Today is my 39th birthday, mind you. My mom had me at 45, so, and she had me naturally. So there’s hope, right, but I just don’t know, and I have to find and seek that radical acceptance that I just don’t know. I can only control what is in my control, what’s in my power, but these outcomes that I seek, they’re not, they’re out of my hands, right and it really hurts to face that reality.

15:53
So, anyway, thank you all so much for your time. Thank you for listening. It would mean the world to me if you shared this episode, or if you go to my site and share the blog entry. Share it with other folks who might need that support and, yeah, I will see you in the next episode. Take care, hey. If you are enjoying what you are listening to, I invite you to subscribe and share the podcast. But also go to my website, bottomlessdeseobercom, and find out other opportunities to work with me, from free workshops to writing classes, to one-to-one life coaching opportunities. You can schedule a free consultation for that. Everything is available at bottomlessdeseobercom. See you then.

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Link to Spotify

In this episode:

Listen in as I discuss the challenging and sometimes very uncomfortable decisions I’ve made that led me to recovery and, ultimately, saved my life. The journey to recovery has not been easy, as I share about selling my beloved house and moving into my sister’s guest room in Tampa. I also recount how I had to quit my prestigious teaching job and switch to working an entry-level sales job, a decision that, although humbling, was crucial to my recovery. Oh, and dating? My recovery definitely made that interesting.

Tune in as I continue to shed light on the other critical aspects of my recovery journey, including the use of medication and the idea that no matter when and where we start on this path, we are exactly where we need to be.

Resources:

Feeling’s Aren’t Facts: A New Year’s Eve Self-Forgiveness Workshop

Bottomless to Sober – Coaching, Writing Classes, and Workshops

Transcript:

Hey everyone. So on today’s episode, I wanted to share a list of tough decisions that I have had to make to save my life and recovery. It actually comes inspired by Deisha Kennedy. She’s a financial educator. Her Instagram handle is at the broke black roll and she recently shared a list of tough financial decisions that she had to make that essentially saved her life, and so you know, I found her list incredibly inspiring. So I figured, you know what. Let me do some reflecting and list some of the decisions that I have had to make in my recovery to basically save my own ass. So, with no further ado, here’s that list, right?

00:42
So, number one, I sold the house that I was super proud of buying all on my own in Louisville, kentucky, and I moved into the guest room of my sister’s house in Tampa. So for me, giving up that house that I bought all on my own after having gotten divorced in 2017, it was a huge sacrifice, right? And for me, I grew up in a home where, culturally, we were taught to be quote unquote strong, independent women. Right that we don’t need anybody, and you know, my parents so often emphasize that I was supposed to go to school so that I wouldn’t need anybody else’s help. And yet here I was identifying the fact that I desperately needed someone’s help and that it really wasn’t good for me to live by myself, and I sold the house that was, in a sense, like a dream little house right so that I could move with my big ass dog into my sister’s guest room. But you know what? That allowed me to move into? A home that was full of love, a home full of people who were cheering on my recovery and a home full of support. So I had to make that really, really tough call to lose a space that was online, an actual piece of property whose value would have increased drastically since the pandemic right, and I gave all that up for the sake of having a safe environment. And so I wanted to recognize that that was one of the big decisions, that it was a hard decision but it was a necessary one.

02:10
Number two I quit my job as a teacher in a school that I loved, that was a part of a community that I actually felt really involved in and loved by and accepted by, except they didn’t know I was drinking, right. But I walked away from all that and I had even been named the state teacher of the year in Kentucky the year before and I walked away from all of that in order to start fresh, right. And so when I walked away from my teaching job I don’t talk about it often but like my day job for about two years in my early recovery, I mean I still consider myself to be early on enough, but you know, at the very start my day job was I was a salesperson for a tutoring company and I was an entry level salesperson for a tutoring company, making a little bit above minimum wage as an hourly rate right, going from being like state teacher of the year to that. However, it helped save my life right, because I walked away from a very demanding job that was absolutely exhausting, that, even with all the recognition that I had, I still felt like I struggled to feel successful when my students were constantly being measured against these like standards that were being thrown on us right, and I taught students with disabilities and even though they’re just as successful as their peers, it didn’t always show on tests, right, and those tests directly spoke. Not that they’ve directly spoke, but they directly affected me in terms of my evaluation as a teacher. So for me, I needed to let go of that paperwork, let go of the increasing demands, let go of all the stress and lack of appreciation that teachers overall deal with, even with my accolades again, for the sake of seeking my sobriety, right. So I just want to recognize that like if you’re listening and you’re wondering do I need to walk away from my job? I’m obviously not going to sit here and advise you through a podcast that you need to quit your job, but it is something that you might need to look at right Next up I have, when I started dating again, that I made it a priority to discuss my recovery from addiction very early on with any man who I decided to go out and date with, even if it felt uncomfortable, even if I remember thinking, man, I might miss out on a great opportunity here.

04:31
Right, I still went forward and shared and disclosed my status as a person in recovery because I knew that there is no way that I could build a long, lasting, long term relationship and foundation for a possible family with someone who didn’t know and accept my story fully. That is so important to me. It is so important to me especially because of the work that I do being a life coach for people in recovery, facilitating support group meetings in different communities, openly writing about my story and sharing about my story. There’s no way that you could be the man in my life if you don’t see all of that and see it as an asset. You’ve got to see my recovery as a win. If you look at me and you think I’m a liability, if you look at me and you feel like you don’t trust me, if you look at me and you have your own negative perspective of what recovery looks like, if you buy into the stigma behind addiction, then you’re not the person for me. Frankly, I wanted to know that really really fast. I always brought it up as quickly as possible so that I can clear the path. If you weren’t with it, then you could go and free me up so that I can meet somebody who would see me as a value because of my recovery.

05:54
Next thing on my list is that I accepted medical assistance and I used medication for the first one and a half years of my recovery. I had to let go of that idea that I could do this all by myself and I had to accept that it was okay to work with a licensed medical doctor who can prescribe me something to assist with what I needed, and then, when I no longer felt that I needed it, I worked in conjunction with said licensed professional and let go of the medications. Now, obviously, my journey with medication is not going to be the same as your journey with medication, and just because I have stopped taking medication does not mean that other people need to stop per se. There’s nothing wrong with taking medication long term. It’s just that, for me, I decided that I no longer wanted to take the medications, and the way that I looked at it for myself, in my personal experience, was, if you break a leg and you have a cast, you have crutches. You don’t keep the cast on and you don’t use the crutches for the rest of your life. That’s the way I look at it in my experience for myself. For me, I was, once I felt strong enough in terms of having learned alternate coping tools that had nothing to do with drinking. Once I took the time to design a life that I wouldn’t want to escape from, I figured that I would be good in terms of working on gradually releasing the medication under medical supervision, and I did. Again, not to say that that’s everyone’s experience, but it is mine, and it was very humbling efforts to accept that I probably needed some crutches, that I wasn’t going to do this without the crutches, because I had already been trying for 14 months and repeatedly failing.

07:36
The next big decision that I had to make in terms of supporting my recovery was actually making time in my schedule to show up for my recovery. I clearly was able to manage the logistics of making time in my schedule to drink every single day. That meant that, likewise, I could turn things around and make time in my schedule to go to meetings, to journal, to reflect, to work with Early on. I was in a 12-step program, so I had a sponsor in the beginning. Then eventually, it became mentorship and working with the therapists and coaching. No matter what was going on, I had to dedicate the time to my recovery the same way that I did with my drinking.

08:18
The next big thing that I did was assess my spending. Listen, I used to be such a spender when I drank. I’ll give you an example. I one time when I lived in an apartment before I had built the house, so this was probably around 2016, 2017. No, I’m sorry, I’m giving you the wrong year. Let’s say 2018, approximately. In 2018,.

08:43
There was one day that I had fallen asleep from drinking and when I wake up and I come to, my apartment is full of smoke and there is a man in my apartment who was one of the managing operators of the apartment complex in which I lived in. And apparently I had gotten so drunk and fell asleep to the point that the food that I had cooking in the oven burnt. My apartment had filled with smoke, the smoke alarm had been going off and I noticed neither the smoke nor the alarm. I didn’t hear any of it, I didn’t smell any of it. Nothing woke me up until that man was keyed into my apartment and woke me up out of my sleep, right. So if he hadn’t come in and if that alarm hadn’t like tripped up the security system, could a fire have happened? Absolutely, Could I have died in this fire? Maybe, right, I don’t know, but the fact that it took someone coming into my apartment and waking me up, and that being the only way that I came out of my my like passed out state, speaks a lot. So, anyway, the following day, I had gotten a certified letter from the apartment complex stating that I had a warning and that, if that incident happened again, that I would have my lease revoked and I would have to move out, right. That I would get oh my gosh, I wanna use the word evacuated, but evacuated is not evicted. There we go, that I would get evicted.

10:05
So when that happened, rather than stopping and saying, okay, this is a sign that I need to stop drinking, I became really innovative because people with addictions are incredibly driven people, and when I was still driven to drink and I decided to transition into using Uber Eats and other food delivery services so that that way, I could safely eat when I wanted to eat without risking burning down the house right, and risking burning down the apartment complex. To me, it was an innovative solution to a problem and so but here’s the thing I was on a teacher’s salary, right, and I was my own. I lived by myself, so I took care of all my bills. I was dealing with student loans, et cetera. So my credit card took a big hit because every single night I was ordering Uber Eats, that I was, first of all, barely eating because, as I was getting sick or with alcoholic liver disease, my appetite basically disappeared. However, I still would buy food because I felt like if I forced myself to take a few bites at least. That was doing something right. Doesn’t make sense at all. But that’s drunk math, so to speak. So anyway, over time, after about a year or two years of just buying so many Uber Eats deliveries and then I started doing alcohol delivery as well all those fees, all those charges really really added up and I took a big financial hit.

11:29
So when I stopped drinking, I finally had the courage to actually, like, look at my credit card account and look at my bank account and assess the damage that I had done. That was really hard, that was really really uncomfortable. I’m telling you, right To feel like, oh my gosh, I’m at a negative right, but that was. You can only go up from there if you stop drinking, and that’s how I felt. I was like, well, I’ve got to pick up the pieces financially, create a budget and get on a plan, and so and even to this day, like I have signed up recently for a financial literacy class, and so, as I used to dedicate so much of my money to alcohol, now what I try to do is save. I’m still working on learning about investing and then on occasion, I treat myself within reason to nice things. But I really had to completely overhaul my financial situation, and alcohol made me not give a shit about how much I was spending every single day on food delivery, which was not good at all. So that was a big decision. Another big decision that I had to make was I had to stop telling myself that I was bored every time. Things were quiet when I was drinking alcohol, especially so heavily.

12:44
After my divorce, those few years between my divorce and me quitting drinking, I find myself in romantic relationships with really problematic men. Right, and there was always drama, there was always a conflict, I was always saying something that I couldn’t remember, and then there was always gaslighting happening because people were telling me that things were happening that weren’t maybe necessarily true, but there was no way that I could really hold them accountable because of the fact that I was drunk all the time. So there was just so much chaos in my life that I had gotten accustomed to. And even when I dated Ian, who passed away, obviously we were both sober during the length of our relationship, but then, immediately after he passed away, I spent eight months just in and out of hospitals.

13:30
So for me, my life, I had just gotten used to this sort of like base level line of chaos that in sobriety it went away for the most part and then it was just really uncomfortable to sit with the stillness of some evenings. And sometimes that stillness would lead me to have thoughts that start ruminating and almost like I would just start looking for problems. So I had to really just stop and tell myself that when I was bored that there was nothing wrong with the stillness. Right To not confuse boredom for peace, or rather I think that’s the other way around, so not confuse peace for boredom. Then the last thing on this list that I would say that was really important for me to come to as a decision was to accept that I wasn’t behind quote, unquote anyone else and really embrace that where I was and where I am today is exactly where I’m supposed to be. Right For me.

14:38
There is a lot of ways that if you were to say, compare my personal situation to that of other peoples, it’s very easy to be like, oh yeah, she’s behind, right, because I no longer own property, so I had no home, divorced right, so in theory, behind there in terms of like having a marriage, having a family, no children. So again, especially I mean at that point, when I got sober, I was 35, now I’m 38. But you know, like there are all these societal markers that are external things that you can say that they’re look for is that I was missing and, oh, also being in debt, right. So I had all these things going on where I would start to feel bad for myself and I would start to internalize this idea like, dang, my parents came to this country for me to just be this far behind, right, and I have had to learn to let that go because, frankly, like, yes, I gave up my home, yes, I gave up a job that I was kind of like a little like angel rock star at, so to speak. Like, yes, I was in debt, etc. But you know what y’all like, I can go, eventually I could buy a home again, if eventually I can have a career that I want, right, I can fix my financial situation. But you know what I can’t do? I can’t recover any of that shit if I’m dead because of my drinking. So, at the end of the day, right, it’s like it’s about really just having that very realistic perspective that all those external things don’t matter if I am not alive, and recognizing that I am alive today because I was willing to step away from all those external factors to work on myself.

16:16
So, with that being said, I hope that this podcast episode helped you reflect a little bit on some of the tough decisions that maybe you have had to make, or some decisions that you are sitting with that you might need to complete or move into action. What are they? Feel free to reach out to me and let me know here. Just quick announcement on December 31st I am offering my Feelings Aren’t Facts workshop. It’s a New Year’s Eve workshop on self-forgiveness. It is only $15. If you are interested in work, doing some self-development work with me, I highly recommend it. It’s going to be a beautiful 90-minute workshop where we do some serious reflecting and some writing, where we just kind of set the stage for a beautiful start to 2024. So, with that y’all, thank you so much for listening and I will catch you in the next episode.

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In this episode:

Content Warning: Discussion of pregnancy loss and abortion

As I sat down with Kenneth Watson, known as 12 Faces of Sober, a rush of raw emotions filled the room. His story of struggle, transformation, and the joy of fatherhood took me on a journey that deeply resonated with me. From his past experiences with abortion and miscarriage fueling his addiction, to finding strength and hope in fatherhood and sobriety, Kenneth’s candid revelations served as a powerful testament to human resilience and the invaluable role of a supportive community.

Walking us through the dark alleys of his life, Kenneth was open about his mental health struggles and the impact of his father’s alcoholism. His transition from casual drinking to addiction, taking him through the military, a tumultuous marriage, and multiple rehab stints, was a stark reminder of the havoc addictions can wreak. But it was equally inspiring to see how he found light at the end of this dark tunnel, breaking free from addiction and embracing the joy of fatherhood.

However, our conversation did not stop at his personal journey. We also delved into the larger implications of addiction, highlighting that it knows no racial, ethnic, or socioeconomic boundaries. Kenneth brought forth the necessity for mainstream recovery to be inclusive of people of color, and how sobriety can serve as a rebellion against historical alcohol-induced control mechanisms. Join us on this enlightening journey as Kenneth shares his path to sobriety, the joys and challenges of fatherhood, and the empowering lessons he’s picked up along the way.

Resources:

12 Faces of Sober Site

Follow Kenneth on Instagram

Bottomless to Sober – Coaching, Writing Classes, and Workshops

Transcript:

Hey everyone. I’m Jessica Dueñas and I’m so, so, so excited to have Kenneth Watson aka 12 Faces of Sober on the show today. We were literally just about to get into the conversation and I was like oh wait, let me hit record, because Kenneth’s wife is literally ready to give birth at any moment. So if this episode abruptly gets stopped, it’s because he had to go to the hospital.

00:53 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
So this is Well. Hello, jessica. Thank you so much for coming, allowing me to come on Bottomless to Sober and share a little little something from my past. I greatly appreciate it and appreciate all what you’re doing in the sober community.

01:13 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Thank you, thank you. So Kenny, like I said, literally his wife is due at any moment now, which is really really exciting. And you know, kenny and I have had opportunities to talk a little bit like on and off, probably over the past, like year and a half, maybe two years at this point, and you know, I remember like when we both talked about like relationships and dating and all of this, and boom out of nowhere, kenny’s married, there’s a baby on the way. So tell us a little bit about that because I think, like for anybody who’s followed you, whatever you’re comfortable sharing, of course, but yeah, like Kenny, what’s been going on? Mr Soon, to Be Sober Dad, this is beautiful.

01:52 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I met my wife. Let me see, five years ago I was on one of my many I made it a point early in sobriety to, you know, travel and go to sporting events. And I was in Cleveland, actually, at Chargers, chargers, cleveland Browns game, and she had posted something Well, actually it was a black, a black vegan group on Facebook. And so they were like, hey, you know, post the post a picture of you know guys wearing the suits. I was like, shoot, you know, I’m doing community work or whatever. So posted it and you know, got a few likes and everything. So I’m going through.

02:32
It was like all right, well, I’m single, so let’s see. And so she was one of the first persons that I actually, you know, slid in the DM and she responded. So I was like all right, cool, so we hit it off, you know, no kids, both while I was in completion of my master’s degree, because she also had a master’s degree. So it was a lot of things you know as far as that. And so she’s, you know, we’ve been together Like I think it just I think, yeah, this past.

03:07
I think it was October, october, 14, may, five years when we first met, and then this upcoming February will be our first year anniversary of being married and probably, you know, people are probably wondering like, where did this come from? How to let feel. But I, you know, I told I made it a point to be very careful in terms of my relationship. You know, being posted on social media, learning from my past mistakes during the days of drinking, and other people on social media chiming in on my mess. You know my mistakes and mishaps, so that was more or less where I didn’t really do it. You know I’m not ashamed of my wife. I love her to death, but it, you know, I just there was times where I shared, you know, things on there, but I just felt like right now that’s not the goal at hand, and so a lot of people who were definitely surprised when I started posting certain things, but I just felt like I didn’t want that you know part of it to be, you know, in my life.

04:09
But we more or less like I don’t know, like we knew we were going to get married. We proposed, I proposed to her, like I think it was a couple of years ago and you know we took a little time off to you know, get ourselves together and then we got.

04:25
You know, she came to Minnesota in December and then the baby came, you know, and it was like, all right, well, let’s go ahead and push the waiting date up a little bit. And so we got married in April and but we were going to probably get married within, probably like within the year. You know, that was a plan even before the baby was, even, you know, a thought. We were going to do it. So but, yeah, but as far as that like it, I’m not going to lie to you. My a part of my past drinking was from situations you know, dealing with an abortion in 2008.

05:01
A miscarriage in the year that I don’t want to mention, but you know, just it, it, it. I knew that there was a part of me that always wanted to have a child, even, you know, dating back to when I was 14, being in the first pregnancy situation. And so to go all those years not having, you know, having a child, and now, you know, having one of my own. It’s truly a blessing. It surpasses anything thus far within my sobriety of almost seven years.

05:33 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
So powerful Congratulations. I know a big question that I’m sure people wonder right, especially with conversations around relationships. Obviously your wife is pregnant, so I know she’s nine months sober, for sure, but is she a non-drinker, or what does that look like for you all in your dynamic?

05:52 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I got lucky. I got lucky. Yes, well, I’m not going to lie. You know she has you know, drank. You know, I think she drank last year, but that was on our separation time, so I can’t hold that against her. But no, our, our home is is 100% alcohol free as long as, even when we were, you know, in Jacksonville and you know she was, you know, staying with me there there was no alcohol.

06:19
It didn’t matter who my guests were, you know so that the good thing about it is is that you know with our family.

06:25 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Now you know our son is going to.

06:28 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
You know, we’ll be born into a sober household. Like I said, my wife I’ve never seen my wife drink and I don’t plan on it. So if she drinks outside of me that’s her business, but she doesn’t. I’ve never, not once, seen her drink in five years.

06:42 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, well, that’s super powerful. And, again, like I, I am so stinking happy for you because it’s like I know we’ve been having these conversations over, like I said, the last year and a half, two years. At this point, so to hear that is is really, really awesome. Um, you know, one of the things that you mentioned that kind of like being careful and past relationships and kind of like some of some of the loss that you’ve experienced in the past what are some of like the hopes that you have? Like now that you’re looking at parent, like this is a whole new level of sobriety right. Like now you’re looking at parenthood, like I know for me, I hope to get there at some point. You know that’s something that I have like come around to deciding, like it’s something I want and obviously it’s not just the matter of hopefully when and if right. But I’m curious, like what are like your hopes? Like now you’re about to be a father, you’re about to have a son.

07:36 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Right just to be the best father possible. My father was in my life and to all my friends. They thought that we were like the Cosbeads, but it’s like nah. We got our own type of issues and I witnessed my father abuse alcohol, so I know that.

07:58
I don’t want my son to ever see me intoxicated, because I saw that as a kid. From as far as I can remember, I can remember my dad drinking. I can remember issues with the police. So those are definitely two things that I don’t want my son to witness. I know that it’s no longer. I know that once I got married it was no longer about me. Now I have my wife to think about and my son to think about.

08:25
So just a different thought process. I’m not gonna lie to you. I’ve been a stepfather. I’ve dated women who’ve had kids and of course, your thought process isn’t the same, because these aren’t your kids. Yeah, they may respect you, they may not respect you, but those are still not your kids at the end of the day. And so for me, I guess I just, I just wanna I’m glad you asked that, because I just text two of my close friends from college and I was like they’re both fathers and I’m like, man, can you give me any type of advice? Man, like I got, my anxiety is just crazy right now. And they’re just like stay prayed up and there’s no right or wrong way to do it, but just be present in your child’s life. And I was like that’s all I’m trying to do and the good thing is I’m not working. So it’s like if my wife needs to rest I can do whatever, even if she’s at work. We don’t have to pay to do daycare because I’m at home all day.

09:30 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
So, well I oh no, cause I was gonna ask you actually like so what is like, what are you doing to prepare? Because I think again, like when we get sober, we get a lot of tools. And one of the things that’s been interesting about watching you very recently too, I feel like you’ve been very vocal about how you’ve kind of done your own thing and kind of worked on your own path, right, and so now that you’re, you’ve been doing your own path. That has had to work for you, because different spaces didn’t resonate with you. As black man, I’m curious, like what’s the preparation for the parenthood piece been looking like? So you mentioned your friends and I was curious, like, are you work? Like, is there any mentorship going on? Like what, what does that whole preparation look like?

10:09 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I have plenty of good men, plenty of good men, not only black men, it’s probably the majority. And so you know, my father’s still alive, you know we’re definitely on good terms. So I go to them. Like I’m not gonna lie to you, I did have like a mental, a mental health breakdown a couple of weeks ago and I think that it was just a harsh reality of a lot of things. It was like okay, I’m just going by, you know, the last eight months, eight months and change, and it’s like okay, I’m going to be responsible for a whole nother human being.

10:46
You know what I’m saying? That, according to the ultrasound looks a lot like me. So it’s just kind of one of those things. It’s like it’s something that I envisioned, but to me it’s like you can’t prepare for it, no matter how. You know you can sit here and you could watch all kinds of videos, watch other people’s profiles it’s still not going to prepare you for you know you being in that situation and I’ve been in it before, but to 100%, no, like this is my child, there’s no questioning. You know you shouldn’t have to deal with that, but that’s what I had to deal with, you know, and I paid the price in the process, because I didn’t know how to deal with my emotions at that time.

11:32 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
So how do you deal with your emotions now? And you’ve been sober. What is it seven years or six years?

11:37 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Yeah, it’d be seven years next week.

11:39 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Okay, wow.

11:40 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
One to 15. Like I’ve been, honestly I’ve been struggling because therapists like I’m, you know, big shots out to Miss Charlene Smith. I’ve just go. You know she’s no longer my therapist but by far the best therapist that I’ve had since 2010. And it was to me like she was more of like an auntie than she was my therapist that the government was paying, you know, to have these sessions. And once I left Jacksonville, I think the last session I had with her was when all hell broke blue excuse my language last year and I had to move back up here and she was like I don’t care if you’re out of state, but I’m gonna take your. You know, I’m gonna take this call and I was like all right.

12:32
So I’ve been battling in terms of trying to find the right therapist.

12:36
You know, like in Minnesota there aren’t therapists of color and I want to have a therapist that has some type of knowledge of what a black person goes through or you know what I’m saying because they’ve experienced it when you have someone that’s not of your own ethnic background, unless they’re married to somebody and they still want 100% no. And so I had a therapist. She was black, she was in St Louis, we were doing virtual, but then it was issues because you know she would forget that we would have the appointments. And I’m like, okay, you know, I don’t know if you saw, but like I think during the summer like I would go for walks while I was having my therapy sessions and stuff like walk around the lake in my old neighborhood. So now it’s just more or less of me trying to, and even though the therapist that they have me scheduled to see next month, I got rid of her last year because it affected she was non-African-American and I’m telling her the stuff that I’m going through, but it’s just not resonating, she’s not understanding it.

13:42
And so I was just like I can’t. I’m sorry, you know disrespect, but I can’t have you as a therapist if we can’t relate. And so, and then now, like I said, they scheduled it and I just told my wife I was like, wait a minute, they just said the same the lady I had an issue with last year. So now I just how I more or less already belong with it, but how I usually handle it now I have really, really good friends. I have good friends from childhood, from junior high, elementary, college, military.

14:13
I can reach out to a lot of people, and even in the sober community, and so you know we help each other and that’s kind of how it is. So I will definitely say that. So shout out to the sober community, thankful, thank you, because I know that I’ve had some hard days and I can reach out, including you is like, look, I’m struggling, I don’t know what to do, and that’s kind of how it is, even though I haven’t met a lot of people, obviously in the sober community, but I still feel like we have that connection and of course we’re gonna meet one day, but it’s just a matter of time.

14:47 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Oh, for sure, like either something’s gonna bring me to Minnesota or I know you have connections in Florida. For sure, like one of the biggest issues in terms of access to appropriate medical care for people with addiction is that right that we don’t see ourselves represented in service providers and that can create a really big barrier. You have to feel seen and if your provider doesn’t know that, doesn’t understand that, then it’s a really difficult thing.

15:13 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Yeah, and then one thing I have an issue with, too, is that this is for any healthcare professional make sure you read the chart before you see the client. Because I’m gonna give you an example. I was in Phoenix, like I might’ve been, maybe like within the first six months of me being out the Army and, like I said, I was still. I was on the tail end of my addiction and I volunteered to go have a therapy session and the lady come you know, calls me in the office and was like, yeah, so what are you here for? And I’m like, did you read anything? I’m like I’m a victim of domestic violence. I struggling with alcohol. Hell, I probably smelled like alcohol the day I went up in there and I was in tears and I was like, I mean, I’ve cried before in the therapy session, but not like that was like dang.

16:06
What’s the purpose of you having me come in here for this appointment If you don’t even know anything? I mean you could have, at least, just five or ten minutes before I walked in here, looked over something. No, that lady had no clue and I said I’ll never see that lady again. Sure enough, I switched there. It’s like the next day or that same day I was like I need somebody else.

16:26 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and I mean even just that little personal touch, right Like that, that can go a long, long way.

16:33
So, kenny, tell me a little bit about your story, because obviously you know my podcast is like pretty new, like I just started in July, so you know I haven’t been on before and for anybody who’s listening, you might be like a totally brand new human being that I’m introducing on here and so obviously, so far they know that you are super excited to be a dad. But you know you’ve done some major things. You’re a vet, right, and I think like that’s important. Um, so can you tell us a little bit about yourself and just kind of like how you, how you got to a place of struggling with alcohol and how you came back from it?

17:06 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Hmm, okay, uh, you mentioned florida. I was uh born in florida or raised in san diego, california. My dad was in the navy so we kind of moved around a little bit and kind of around the country in the 80s. Um, as I mentioned earlier, my dad um struggle with alcoholism, um while he was in the military, so I saw it and so a lot of the his actions Eventually carried on to me the love for music, playing it all, day and night, um stuff like that. Um I would. I’m the youngest of five, two brothers, two sisters. I was the only one who had the issue with drinking. My other, some of my siblings they drink, but no one had the issue like I did.

17:52
Um, I was like anybody, you know, I ain’t gonna say anybody, but I was, you know, an athlete. You know, growing up, you know I played baseball, basketball, football. It’s pretty good at some of those sports. Some of them just kind of kept me off the streets. Um, all right, I wasn’t. I would say I was For rather, you know, intelligent until I moved to one of the worst school districts in the county in san diego and I was in the top percentile.

18:17
I have to say this I was in the top percentile in california, all the way up until like fourth grade gifted classes and then we moved districts and then I just lost all of it and so my parents didn’t have education. So always in my mind was, like they’re working so hard. I know that once it’s time for me to get out of school, that I need to go to college, that so that I can have, hopefully, a better opportunity. So I folded around and went to four colleges and universities one, hbcu, carcass, and university um. But the problem was is, once I got the degree in 2003, um, the job market, you know, wasn’t the greatest. And so in my mind I’m thinking, like, okay, if I go to college, I invest all this time, then I’ll be able to get a job. Oh no, that wasn’t the case. And the job that I did end up getting in my field, it was only paying me seven dollars an hour. So of course I’m hustling, I’m I’m substitute teaching, I’m working at a prison out here, and that’s that was my hustle. And Because of politics and everything, me being a young, on their personality, you got these older personalities. They didn’t like it because of the fact that, like, okay, this guy’s gonna steal my job, the hundred thousand dollar job that they got, now potentially I can take. And so clashes, and so I ended up leaving there and I went to Arizona. And when I went to Arizona I’m thinking like, okay, I have the degree, I have the experience and now I’ll be able to Get a job in radio. No, I didn’t. I didn’t get a job and I had to go get a job Just like anybody else, working in department stores, post office and so on and so forth.

20:00
But in between that time I’m hanging out with my brother, my brother’s 10 years older than, or is 10 years older than me. So they’re drinking, they’re smoking. You know, at that time I’m drinking Budweiser, they drinking malt, liquor, hennessy and all this stuff. So now I’m going from, you know, as some would say, the mommy wine culture to now I’m drinking the, the street stuff. And so when I’m drinking this now it’s bringing out a whole different person. And so I’m hanging out with these guys. They’re miserable in their marriages and I’m just a guy who’s Not trying to get married, but I’m absorbing all of what they’re doing.

20:37
And so I started to pick up that habit then because I couldn’t find work. I wasn’t happy with the work that I was getting. The pay was horrible 10, 11 dollars an hour, barely surviving and so I ended up getting with someone. She got pregnant and ended up having an abortion, and he completely drove me crazy. And so I told her. I said, if you do this, you’re not going to get the same person, and eventually that relationship lasted for a little bit longer, but I ended up doing a night in jail and, you know, lost everything, was homeless and had to come to Minnesota and that was my first day in rehab.

21:15
So I did Three stints in rehab before I actually Got to where I’m at today three rehabs, two detoxes, one homeless shelter, um, but as far as where, it continued to carry over, I was in the military. I served in your army for six years. If anybody knows about the military culture, you work hard, you play hard, but then you drink even harder, and I was already with the addiction before I got in the army, and so it was magnified, and at that point I was needy, I needed the attention of a woman, and so I got married to somebody that I had no business being married to, and I was with her for for six years and she basically Told me that I wouldn’t be shit excuse my language that I would be a drunk with um, but a bachelor’s degree, and she’s all right, she’s absolutely correct, but I’m now sober with a master’s degree, so I don’t know. But, and so I, in 2016, after I got the army 2015 but 2016 Um, I was in a hospital.

22:17
I did nine days. I had issues with my pancreas it almost exploded Gained a lot of weight, lost a lot of weight within a nine day span, but I still didn’t learn. I still didn’t learn that, okay, this alcohol is taking me out. And so, finally, um, I I called my mom like I said I mentioned a few minutes ago, I was in a homeless shelter and I got kicked out. The homeless shelter Called. My mom was like, hey, can I come back to Minnesota? And she’s like but you got to get sober. I said all right. And so I was on the bench for like two weeks and then, finally, I went ahead and um.

22:53
Like I did a night of a binge. I went to the casino, spent about four, five hundred dollars. My mom was like how can I help you? How can I get you sober? How can I, you know, get you on the right path? Because I I don’t want to bury my son. And when she said that I just completely sobered up. I still drink until I went in the rehab.

23:11
But I just knew that there was that this alcohol stuff wasn’t for me, and so I did treatment. When I was in treatment, I got my furniture, my car, from Arizona. Um, I, I’m not gonna lie, I like to say it. Um, men, we do get a chance to take furniture from the women. I took a four bedroom house full of furniture In my car. My car got shipped up here when I was in uh in treatment.

23:34
And so once I knew that, when I got out of the hospital, once I knew that, when I got out of rehab, that I knew like, okay, maybe this is going to be different. I had the keys to my car, I had the keys to my apartment that day of, and then, a couple weeks later, I started grad school, because I applied to grad school when I was in uh treatment, and so that I mean I did that and and pretty much Over the six or seven years I’ve traveled. Like I said, I love sports, so I’ve tried to go to sport and then talk throughout the country. Um, I did a study abroad, and also Mandela University during my graduate studies. Um created a podcast author to book. Um, what else? Got married, have kids, you’re about to have a son. I mean, sobriety has brought a lot of stuff that I honestly did not think that I would be able to experience, and I love it and and I encourage anybody to just try and just see what happens. You never know.

24:33 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
That’s awesome. One of the things that I noticed, also that you had a kind of posted about lately, was sort of navigating your own path. So for anybody who might be listening and kind of trying to figure out what works for them especially if they’re a man, especially if they are a man of color, a black man, who might be listening right what do you recommend or like what worked for you and what didn’t work for you? Like, obviously I know you went to rehab, but once you get out, you know rehab is this protective little fortress that we’re all in, because I went to rehab too and you’re finding your safe when you’re in there, but as soon as you come out, the real world is waiting for you. So how did you transition into the real world and stay sober all this time? Like what did those supports look like? Was it just sober people? Was it all sorts of people who you were connecting with? Because you know some people will say, like you have to only be around sober people, etc. So like what did it look like for you?

25:28 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Did you do like?

25:29 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
step programs, etc. Things like that.

25:32 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Well, I had the it’s no longer open, but there was the next town over and I had been going to that AA group since like 2008. And so I would probably say like I did a combination of a lot of things because for me AA was kind of triggering, because I was going to AA and I was still drinking. You know, I would either go into AA intoxicated or the moment I left I was intoxicated. So it was more or less like I tried it but I just didn’t. I didn’t feel comfortable in the room because I was an old black person in there and it was. I wanted to be in the rooms where I can hear some similar stories, like maybe some childhood trauma, certain things that that may not. You know, because you know how it is in in in in black people’s homes, they don’t necessarily address those hotbed issues mental health, you know, addiction to a substance and stuff like that, and so that was it. But now, like I would say, like some of my friends didn’t understand, like fully understand, because they still drink, and so I was still being invited to to functions early into sobriety and I was like look, no, I can’t go, I don’t trust myself, let alone being amongst a bunch of people that this is the main focus of this get together is you’re going to be drinking. And so I had to say no and be firm, like no, I’m sorry, I don’t want to hang out. You know now, if you want to come, you know, come, hang out at my place, where I know like I’m not going to be drinking. Then yeah, so I had to be have limitations even, you know, had company, you know of the opposite sex. They knew they couldn’t come over and have it. You know, out on now they chose to drink before they came over. That state business.

27:31
But I would have to say, learning to say no, that was probably by far one of the hardest things. For me was to say no because, like I’m boring, I can’t have fun without alcohol. But then once I realized I didn’t see that I can and so I would say, like getting to know myself because of the fact that, like I was lying to myself for so many years. So it was like I had to retrain my thought. Like you don’t have to lie your way out of everything, just be honest. Now, if they don’t like your honesty, guess what? At least you know what I’m saying. You’re not intoxicated and getting caught up in lies. So I say that a lot of things that I couldn’t do, that that was key, like when I was married, like it was only going to Phoenix. When I lived in North Carolina, living Texas, we only went to Phoenix to visit her family.

28:22 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Now, you know, in the last seven years.

28:24 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I’d have been to more states in these seven years that I did in the sixth that I was married, and so it’s like, okay, now I can do it. I love sports, so I’m trying these things that I couldn’t do, that I was doing when I was drinking, and am I comfortable? I tried one game. Okay, let’s try another one, let’s try another one. And so that’s more or less with that. But I would say, just be.

28:50
I think that for me it was this is all I had. It was like either I get sober and continue to live this life or you might as well, just, you know, go down the road about 10 miles to the maximum prison where they got the Duke that took out George George Floyd. I can go in that prison where I used to work at, because that’s where I was heading, and so now it’s like I don’t want that and that’s why I try to spread the message like a it’s possible, yeah, try a. Try everything. If it don’t work, try something else. So that’s what I did.

29:25
I put myself, I got active in the community. I was, you know, doing community work up in St Cloud, hanging out with the mayor, the police chief, stuff like that. So it’s just kind of keeping myself busy, you know. And then I had grad school. Grad school was my therapy. Going to class every day, studying writing 2025 30 page papers was my therapy. And, like I said, now, the blessing of my wife and having an in house therapist 24 seven, you know what I mean. So it just you know. Just I guess, given myself a chance. I didn’t give myself a chance when I was drinking because I spent more time drinking than doing anything else. Now I got time. I want to go do stuff and I do if I’m financially able to do it.

30:10 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
If not, I go do something for free. That’s always a good point, thank you, and so I know earlier I had asked you like what are you hopeful for with your son coming? Is there anything that you’re like fearful of with this new transition? Um?

30:30 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I just, I just don’t want my diabetes to take me out.

30:33 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Hmm.

30:42 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
You know, I said I was going to be like super healthy, super strong before he gets here, but that’s not a harsh reality. So I mean, I think, just be present, I think what’s most important, like when I played sports my dad wasn’t there, and so the luxury of now to date, is that I don’t have to work.

31:01
My dad At least that’s what he said he was working, so he didn’t have time to watch my games. Now I do. You know, I know I post on. You know I’m going to my nephew’s games on Friday nights. He plays basketball as well, so I’ll be doing that here in the next couple of weeks. So that’s kind of I’ve been preparing myself for a lot of years. I’m looking forward to whatever activity he’s involved in. I will be there. If my wife came, I will be there.

31:27
You know what I’m saying, yelling my, you know, to the top of my lungs, but I don’t know. I just as far as fear, I’m going to be honest. No, I don’t. I’ve seen enough fear in my life. I’m so that my son don’t have to. You know what I mean and I guess some of my past relationships prepared me. So this is, I don’t know, like I don’t want to. I don’t want to think about fear, because I live that life of fear when I was drinking, because it was like I didn’t want to deal with nothing in life. So I guess I don’t know. I don’t know if that makes sense.

32:08 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, no, it does so. Like well, what advice or what message would you give to anybody who maybe, yeah, like, for example, like I’m 38, anybody who’s listening, who is in their late 30s, their 40s and they’re feeling like time has passed them by, right like that? When that that voice comes out, that’s like it’s too late. What did you say to Summer?

32:32 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
It’s never too late Because, like you said, as you, you, I want to use it. Please say, but the fear of the unknown, like I didn’t, I didn’t know what long term sobriety look like, I know what a 30 days look like, I know what a week or two or 24 hours look like. But but this, right here, and I’m living proof, just by removing alcohol, that all these opportunities have, you know, came available. I’m, you know, hanging out with, you know, like minded people in the sub community that’s trying to spread awareness to it. So I would say, on social media, find some people that are truly genuine, that, even though that they’re behind the phone and you may never met, but are these people would you hang out with, would you truly trust?

33:37
telling personal information to Just keep a diary of how it’s going right, Document the good days and the bad days, Okay, so that when you have that long, long-term sobriety on your belt, you can go back and be like okay, how did I get myself out of that situation? Okay, I was anxious, I was frustrated. Oh, I know I can go to drinking, but what are you doing now so that you’re not putting yourself in that situation? I would say be as active in the sober community, Be careful for some snakes out there, but just be as active as you can ask questions. You know what I mean.

34:24 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
That’s what I was gonna ask you about too, because that was the other thing that I had noticed on some of your shares, like on your posts, there had been sort of like a few people that made reference to, I guess, like rejection from people in the sober community, and I was curious if you could speak to that a little bit.

34:47 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Yeah, when I first got into the sober community, like you say, 2017, because I was in treatment and I wasn’t really using my phone.

34:56 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
I would reach out to people.

34:57 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Hey, I’m newly sober, what advice can you give? Okay, some people wouldn’t even respond, the majority of them would. So I was like, all right, well, all right, then I’m gonna continue to keep posting my stuff and hopefully somebody will catch on.

35:15
And then I started, like you know, after like maybe I would say, maybe like year three, so like either 2019, 2020 is when I started to like people started to. I don’t know it was. I’m dealing with this, so it was. I’m dealing with different types of people in the community. But it was tough because, like I said, I wanted to try this. You know what I mean. I wanted to really be active within it and it’s like, okay, some people have you know that I reached out to, had years under their belt. I’m like I just want some guy and I’m like, look, you don’t have to be my sponsor, I don’t want a sponsor. But you know, can I lean on you? Can I? You know, if I’m having a tough day, can I just be like I wouldn’t get no responses? And even now, like even with some of the stuff that was like that was said, like last year, like I was in an interview and someone was like, as if, like that I can’t go and study abroad in South Africa and you know the government pay for it. You know what I mean and I’m like, okay, who are you Like if that’s what happened? You know I served my country, I earned that right. Why are you upset? You know what I mean. And then they made another comment like oh, my son, he was on the airplane and he pointed out this black guy and asked me why is he so dark? I’m like, so you telling me this on a podcast interview? This is no joke. I said okay.

36:47
And then you know other instances, you know people telling me oh, you’re not promoting AA. And I said I never said that. I said you can try it If you like it, cool, but if you don’t, yeah, just know that you can. You can say that you tried it. But, like I said, it’s four, some and not for all, but I don’t know Like it. To me this ain’t a popularity contest and to a certain extent that’s where it what it, what it seems like. And with me having a master’s degree in communications in this media, I analyze this every day and I know that this is not how this community should be, but it is and I want to change it. But you know there needs to be a few more voices out here. But, like I said, when I first started there was nobody. Now there is, so it’s kind of like alright, let’s keep going.

37:48 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
What would you envision it to be like if it was like ideal?

37:53 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Morey, more events, more events, more sponsors, more, more inclusiveness, then you know, if you guys don’t want to include us. You know we on the panel we was in this summer Like we shouldn’t have to put up a fuss like we were seeing at least I know I was seeing I brought it up to kill. I said wait a minute, like so you telling me that this is the face of sobriety? Is nobody of color? Or you got one person, one person. Okay, there’s more out here, and a big chunk of them I ain’t gonna say big, but a handful have been on my podcast. I had to go do the legwork to find them. You know what I mean. So, and then it kind of trickled down. Now, everybody’s ever, you know, it’s cool with everybody, which is cool.

38:45
I wanted to continue to grow, like I said, I just want to be happy in this community. I want to meet as many people, however, and so on, but the other bs y’all could keep that you know. But I just I realized after what happened a couple weeks ago, I’m just not gonna address it, I’m just gonna block the individuals and keep it moving, because I don’t want, you know, those People that do support me and follow me and understand like I’m trying my best in this journey To get deterred because of somebody else. You know, because they’re of their ignorance and stupidity. You know saying.

39:21 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
I mean that’s crazy that somebody would ask you that, like in a podcast interview, like that.

39:26
That’s wild. And yeah, I mean I would say I know that I remember in the summer I was, I was out of the country visiting my mom, but I remember that’s actually it was the sober summit which is getting redone and you know, I know you spoke up about it, kyola spoke up about it and the woman who runs it, maggie, she stepped up and for the holiday version which is out actually this week, um, she was very intentional about bringing on Making it a more diverse panel. So, you know, I’m I’m glad that I remember Kyola having like a big post about it and calling it out and you know, I appreciate that, like, maggie took that feedback and did something about it. Um, and, like you said, it would be great to see that happen more, because addiction doesn’t just affect one population. Like addiction is seen in all races, all ethnicities, all backgrounds. But the way that you know mainstream recovery puts that, you would think it’s just like white folks We’ll deal with addiction right, and it’s not.

40:32 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
It’s not like I said I, I love to see it like more and more just the you know different different pages. I’m like, okay, that’s what’s up, let me follow. You know what I’m saying. Every time I see if, if it’s something that’s tagged, like, I think j, I think j had somebody on there like somebody else, uh, like tagged him or something. So I was like I clicked on the that individual’s profile. Okay, yeah, I’m following them too. You know what I’m saying.

40:59
Because, that’s just to me is what it is. I, I love to see it. I love you, know. Even if it’s somebody’s promoting something, I try to share that too, because I know that I’m not gonna see that on other people’s pages, you know yeah, yeah, and you know.

41:13 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
And the other thing too, with addiction, I think, like you know, I remember well I don’t remember because I was a kid, but you know, when we were talking about addiction in the 80s and 90s, it was the crack epidemic and that was affecting predominantly black americans, right, and we, I feel like we didn’t really talk about addiction, it was just criminalized. Nowadays we’re dealing with opiate addiction, you know, sweeping across the country and you know, now the conversation is happening, right, because we have a certain demographic of folks that are being impacted. But the crazy thing is that there are actually plenty of people of color who are also being affected by by opiates. But you know, of course, because the majority are white folks, you know that that has had more attention, which is Wild, because I I almost feel like now, for example, like when you hear about people talking about addiction, like sometimes you would think that it as if it’s just white people who are impacted, but like no populations of color have been impacted historically.

42:14
I mean, you know, like I remember one of the wildest things that I remember reading and learning about once I got sober Was how alcohol was used, like I went to. So I went to New Orleans last year and did a tour at I cannot remember the the name of the plantation, but it was like they went through One of the ways in which like alcohol was used with enslaved populations and like you gave them alcohol and you especially gave them alcohol during the holidays so that they wouldn’t plan like to escape, right. So like, what a powerful way to subdue a population, to give them mind-altering substances, because then they’re not going to be coherent enough to like plan any escape, right? We don’t have those conversations enough about how like rebellious sobriety actually really is right like, if you’re clear-headed, you are way less likely to be controlled.

43:03
And you know, we don’t. We don’t talk about that enough, especially for populations of color Like. It’s so important to have our clear heads. You know.

43:11 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I agree 100%. I was just. I was on the phone with Kiehl’s dad last night and we were having this exact conversation real, because it’s it’s. It’s hard because, like you said, you know, because it’s affecting One community. Now they have, like you said, they got these initiatives Okay, but where were these?

43:31
initiatives, when you was going directly to our hoods and and putting and showing us how to cook the stuff. You know what I mean. Well, we’re gonna take you out, we’re gonna take the mail out the home, but this is what it is and you guys got to deal with. And so now it’s like okay, you got people of color talk about. We don’t want this stuff, no more. We want a different life, and sometimes we’re not as welcome. I’ve even had people who have black in their tag name and people will reach out to them like why does it have to be about race? You know, somebody matter of fact, somebody gifted me a sober black veteran. Somebody inboxed me. No, they commented on my post and was like can you make me a white sober veteran shirt? I’m like you can go make your own damn shirt. You know what I mean, but she’s not gonna come on my page with that stuff, you know.

44:25 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and that’s the thing it’s like. To me, the most dangerous conversation is the one where it’s like I don’t see color, like no, I need you to see me. I need you to see me exactly as I am, because this color that I carry is a huge part of my identity, my upbringing and also a lot of the trauma that’s been put on me and my family for generations, you know. So it’s so important to recognize it. Well, we’ve been all over the place in this conversation.

44:57 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I won’t. Hopefully I didn’t talk too much, you know.

44:59 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
No, no, no, this has been great. I mean, again, I’m just really excited to have had the opportunity to touch base with you. I know your life is about to completely change, you know, in the matter of days, weeks, right. So I’m just really honored that you took the time to talk to me because, again, you’re getting ready for a big transition. I’m really honestly happy. I’m so happy for you. Like I remember when you first told me that you had a baby on the way, and then I saw the marriage announcement. You know, I’m just really grateful to see people reaping the fruits of this work, you know, and it’s like I wish more people could, right, and not everyone gets this blessing. And you know, I do feel very fortunate and I know you feel very blessed and fortunate too, like we’re definitely a minority and I’m very grateful to be here and I’m just so glad to see that you’re happy. So I was like oh, let me reach out to Kenny because you know, I appreciate it, I really do.

46:03 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
I appreciate it all because, like I said, it’s you know, being on the interview side is totally different than, you know, me being the host, because I, at one point, that’s all I was doing was just interviewing, interviewing, interviewing one interview, you know, and then about 20 more. You know what I mean. So it was like, but it’s you know, it’s cool and it’s I’m definitely happy to be in this community and I’m happy to, you know, really meet people like you that definitely keep me, you know, on the up and up of you know, about this sobriety and not giving up. You know what I’m saying, because if there’s been too many times where I’m like man, I could just delete this account and just go live my life and I’ll be okay. It’s kind of how I is, but I don’t want that. I want to continue to spread the message and, like I said, coming from a different perspective, you know, with attitude. Basically, you know what I’m saying, but it’s people are relating to it. You know what I mean, and so I got to keep going.

47:03 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah, exactly, I mean because your son is only one of many lives you’re touching, like you’ve been touching lives for years and now you have this beautiful life that’s coming and you know the work that you’re doing. It’s just like you’re planting a seed, like who knows what your son can do? Your son can do like anything, and that’s so wild because you get to be sober, like you literally are. It’s almost like you’re creating the most fertile soil for, like your son to grow. Like, if your son is going to be this flower, he’s going to be like this big, beautiful, like just gorgeous human being, because you’re giving him like the best environment to have a head start. It doesn’t mean that he won’t have like his own challenges. He’s going to be a human being in this world. That’s a crazy world, but like what, what a better parent than like a sober parent right to have? So that’s just awesome.

47:58 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Yeah, because I definitely don’t want to. You know, hear, you know I don’t want to be apologized to my son every single time I made a mistake because I was drinking, right. That was the only time my father apologized and it’s like, okay, but what about all the other stuff? You know what I mean. So I’m just like I don’t want that. I just want to be present as I can, and I know the only way I can be present I have to be sober, and I’m definitely looking forward to it.

48:26 – Jessica Dueñas (Host)
Yeah Well, kenny, thank you. Thank you so much. So if folks want to find Kenny again, his handle is 12 Faces of Sober I’ll link it in my Instagram. I’ll also link. Your book is on Amazon, right?

48:43 – Kenneth Watson (Guest)
Amazon and on Walmart. All you gotta do is type in the 12 Faces of Sober as well, as you can get it on my website, 12FacesofSobercom. I became a best seller last February 22nd 2022. I have a few more books in the works. I just I don’t know, I don’t know if I’m gonna kind of scare you to put them out, but you know, we’ll see one day. But, yeah, Okay, that’s pretty much it.

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